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	<title>
	Comments on: The ethics of off-trail hiking	</title>
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	<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking</link>
	<description>Practical advice and musings on the outdoors, hiking, backpacking, ski touring, and camping.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:42:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: John Napier		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-694336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Napier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-694336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636250&quot;&gt;Dale Matson&lt;/a&gt;.

I ain&#039;t stopping when I am old.. Why?   ===&#062;  “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming &quot;Wow! What a Ride!” 

― Hunter S. Thompson]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636250">Dale Matson</a>.</p>
<p>I ain&#8217;t stopping when I am old.. Why?   ===&gt;  “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming &#8220;Wow! What a Ride!” </p>
<p>― Hunter S. Thompson</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: John Napier		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-694335</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Napier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-694335</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636178&quot;&gt;Paul Mags&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, Paul, for setting up those parameters.  I belie3ve you are 100% correct.  I would bet most people who needed rescue didn&#039;t have the skills needed for what they attempt.  I also totally agree with you:  mentioning off-trail hiking won&#039;t bring in the hoards.  Most people see the unfamiliar and call it &#039;unsafe&#039;.  Safe and Unsafe are such vague and relative terms.  High rise constructions workers work in an &#039;unsafe&#039; workplace - unsafe to those unskilled.  Handling a pistol is &#039;unsafe&#039; to those who have little experience.
I have found that trails often don&#039;t reveal the best of outdoors.  I experienced one of many examples the other weekend where the trail was on top of a peninsula created by a river.  Once I left the trail and scambled down the 180 ft of cliffs, a whole world of cliffs, caves, and springs opened up.  I bet I was one of 10 people who visited the area this year.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636178">Paul Mags</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, Paul, for setting up those parameters.  I belie3ve you are 100% correct.  I would bet most people who needed rescue didn&#8217;t have the skills needed for what they attempt.  I also totally agree with you:  mentioning off-trail hiking won&#8217;t bring in the hoards.  Most people see the unfamiliar and call it &#8216;unsafe&#8217;.  Safe and Unsafe are such vague and relative terms.  High rise constructions workers work in an &#8216;unsafe&#8217; workplace &#8211; unsafe to those unskilled.  Handling a pistol is &#8216;unsafe&#8217; to those who have little experience.<br />
I have found that trails often don&#8217;t reveal the best of outdoors.  I experienced one of many examples the other weekend where the trail was on top of a peninsula created by a river.  Once I left the trail and scambled down the 180 ft of cliffs, a whole world of cliffs, caves, and springs opened up.  I bet I was one of 10 people who visited the area this year.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636252</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636248&quot;&gt;Tom&lt;/a&gt;.

Always a balance. Settling on that balance, of course, is the difficult part.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636248">Tom</a>.</p>
<p>Always a balance. Settling on that balance, of course, is the difficult part.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636251</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2017 18:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636251</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636250&quot;&gt;Dale Matson&lt;/a&gt;.

I am going to take the NPS and their standards over some person I do not know.   Standards which you ignored as you backpedal and repeatedly reword what you stated in your initial written castigation.   FYI: I already volunteer with outdoor groups.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636250">Dale Matson</a>.</p>
<p>I am going to take the NPS and their standards over some person I do not know.   Standards which you ignored as you backpedal and repeatedly reword what you stated in your initial written castigation.   FYI: I already volunteer with outdoor groups.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dale Matson		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636250</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dale Matson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2017 17:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636250</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636223&quot;&gt;Paul Mags&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;But is the mere act of off-trail hiking a risk?&quot; It is not a risk in and of itself, however it is more of a risk than staying on the trails. I never said you should not go off trail. I said when you increase the risk (and this is where we disagree) by going off trail yourself, you potentially increase the risk for others including those with you and those who may have to rescue someone. That may have ethical consequences. Simply keep this in mind. I personally know of several cases where folks were far off trail and one person was injured. By the time the other person was able to get help, the injured person died. I use a sat phone. To me, it is an important tool for those who want to go off trail. Knowing your limitations means reappraising your limitations yearly and making adjustments. In my 50&#039;s I used to run trails in Kings Canyon and Yosemite with a tee shirt, shorts, a flask of hammer gel and water pills. I didn&#039;t see it as risky then. When you are 72 years old, like me you will think differently about lots of things. Since you are so comfortable off trail and obviously a good navigator, maybe you should consider volunteering your time to a SAR team.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636223">Paul Mags</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;But is the mere act of off-trail hiking a risk?&#8221; It is not a risk in and of itself, however it is more of a risk than staying on the trails. I never said you should not go off trail. I said when you increase the risk (and this is where we disagree) by going off trail yourself, you potentially increase the risk for others including those with you and those who may have to rescue someone. That may have ethical consequences. Simply keep this in mind. I personally know of several cases where folks were far off trail and one person was injured. By the time the other person was able to get help, the injured person died. I use a sat phone. To me, it is an important tool for those who want to go off trail. Knowing your limitations means reappraising your limitations yearly and making adjustments. In my 50&#8217;s I used to run trails in Kings Canyon and Yosemite with a tee shirt, shorts, a flask of hammer gel and water pills. I didn&#8217;t see it as risky then. When you are 72 years old, like me you will think differently about lots of things. Since you are so comfortable off trail and obviously a good navigator, maybe you should consider volunteering your time to a SAR team.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636248</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2017 16:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I assume it&#039;s ok to tell folks where you are headed and include, Do Not send any SAR folks after me if I go off radar. No need to risk SAR lives hunting for me. You younger folks may not understand this one.
It would be nice if every person knew their limitations. Some folks really believe that they can climb Mt Everest because they stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume it&#8217;s ok to tell folks where you are headed and include, Do Not send any SAR folks after me if I go off radar. No need to risk SAR lives hunting for me. You younger folks may not understand this one.<br />
It would be nice if every person knew their limitations. Some folks really believe that they can climb Mt Everest because they stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636223</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636223</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636222&quot;&gt;Dale Matson&lt;/a&gt;.

But is the mere act of off-trail hiking a risk? I would say, no. And the NPS agrees over a person who advocates sticking to trails only. And, it is certainly not less ethical.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636222">Dale Matson</a>.</p>
<p>But is the mere act of off-trail hiking a risk? I would say, no. And the NPS agrees over a person who advocates sticking to trails only. And, it is certainly not less ethical.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dale Matson		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636222</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dale Matson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636222</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636210&quot;&gt;Mike B&lt;/a&gt;.

No. It is not unethical. Just remember that the more you put yourself at risk, the more you could be putting someone else at risk.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636210">Mike B</a>.</p>
<p>No. It is not unethical. Just remember that the more you put yourself at risk, the more you could be putting someone else at risk.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike B		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2017 06:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636175&quot;&gt;Dale Matson&lt;/a&gt;.

Is it also unethical if my planned trip is.completely on trail, but due to overzealous mileage estimates or natural obstructions that I was unaware of, I end up camping at sites other than those on my itinerary or need to change my choice of trail to avoid that steep ice field or raging river ford?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636175">Dale Matson</a>.</p>
<p>Is it also unethical if my planned trip is.completely on trail, but due to overzealous mileage estimates or natural obstructions that I was unaware of, I end up camping at sites other than those on my itinerary or need to change my choice of trail to avoid that steep ice field or raging river ford?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2017 23:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=16395#comment-636178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636175&quot;&gt;Dale Matson&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;EDIT:&lt;/strong&gt; As you probably missed, or ignored, this point:

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&quot; D&lt;strong&gt;o you have the correct preparation,  skill level, and fitness for the route selected?&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;/strong&gt;  These points apply for any outdoors endeavor, of course. But when going off-trail, where people are scarce and SAR may have difficulty reaching you, having your outdoor skill set dialed in is very important. &quot;&lt;/em&gt;


All of life is a risk. Not having the skill set, knowledge or preparation is both foolish and unethical.  And, I would argue, the people who decided to not follow their on-trail itinerary did not have these traits.  AS you probably know, being an SAR person, National Parks allow off-trail routes for backpacking once a ranger is satisfied that the person&#039;s skill set and the plan is reasonable. 
   
https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wilderness-camping.htm 
https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wild_guide.htm
https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/off_trail.htm


Obviously, the people you went looking for did not follow this procedure otherwise they would not have been off their submitted plan.  

If the backcountry office feels my plans are ethical for off-trail travel and have permits in place for this type of travel, I&#039;m going to say I feel just fine with my ethics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/the-ethics-of-off-trail-hiking#comment-636175">Dale Matson</a>.</p>
<p><strong>EDIT:</strong> As you probably missed, or ignored, this point:</p>
<p><em><strong>&#8221; D</strong><strong>o you have the correct preparation,  skill level, and fitness for the route selected?</strong>   These points apply for any outdoors endeavor, of course. But when going off-trail, where people are scarce and SAR may have difficulty reaching you, having your outdoor skill set dialed in is very important. &#8220;</em></p>
<p>All of life is a risk. Not having the skill set, knowledge or preparation is both foolish and unethical.  And, I would argue, the people who decided to not follow their on-trail itinerary did not have these traits.  AS you probably know, being an SAR person, National Parks allow off-trail routes for backpacking once a ranger is satisfied that the person&#8217;s skill set and the plan is reasonable. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wilderness-camping.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wilderness-camping.htm</a><br />
<a href="https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wild_guide.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wild_guide.htm</a><br />
<a href="https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/off_trail.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/off_trail.htm</a></p>
<p>Obviously, the people you went looking for did not follow this procedure otherwise they would not have been off their submitted plan.  </p>
<p>If the backcountry office feels my plans are ethical for off-trail travel and have permits in place for this type of travel, I&#8217;m going to say I feel just fine with my ethics.</p>
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