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	<title>
	Comments on: Backcountry Moratorium in Arches National Park	</title>
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	<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park</link>
	<description>Practical advice and musings on the outdoors, hiking, backpacking, ski touring, and camping.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Bill		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-603074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2016 21:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-603074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-603054&quot;&gt;Paul Mags&lt;/a&gt;.

While I was being semi-sarcastic when I mentioned Disney World parking lots above, Disney World isn&#039;t a bad example of how to move people around. A mammoth parking lot with small shuttles going to a central rail station and then a rail loop through the park and back isn&#039;t a bad way to move people. Rail has an advantage over buses when moving lots of people from point A to point B. A rail system needs to be a loop or have two tracks to be really efficient. You just need to remember where you parked.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-603054">Paul Mags</a>.</p>
<p>While I was being semi-sarcastic when I mentioned Disney World parking lots above, Disney World isn&#8217;t a bad example of how to move people around. A mammoth parking lot with small shuttles going to a central rail station and then a rail loop through the park and back isn&#8217;t a bad way to move people. Rail has an advantage over buses when moving lots of people from point A to point B. A rail system needs to be a loop or have two tracks to be really efficient. You just need to remember where you parked.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-603054</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2016 19:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-603054</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-602902&quot;&gt;Mike B&lt;/a&gt;.

Hmm..except at RMNP people still have to pay when using the shuttles outside the park. I&#039;d rather see large mall-like parking lots in town than in a place to contemplate nature. YMMV.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-602902">Mike B</a>.</p>
<p>Hmm..except at RMNP people still have to pay when using the shuttles outside the park. I&#8217;d rather see large mall-like parking lots in town than in a place to contemplate nature. YMMV.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike B		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-602902</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2016 00:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-602902</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Maybe, well no maybe about it, I am being  selfish, but since my typical visit to a national park involves backpacking and multiple nights of camping, I would love to replace all of those cars with a few more buses. It would make trip logistics easier and take all of those cars off the road allowing to safely try biking in these parks. However, there are 2 potential problems, loss of revenue from entrance fees and where do we park all if those cars that the people use to get to the bus? The revenue part is easy, tickets for the buses entering the park can replace the entrance fees. You can even have single ticket prices and group prices.  However, the parking issue only gets moved from inside the park to outside, and that isn&#039;t necessarily a plus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, well no maybe about it, I am being  selfish, but since my typical visit to a national park involves backpacking and multiple nights of camping, I would love to replace all of those cars with a few more buses. It would make trip logistics easier and take all of those cars off the road allowing to safely try biking in these parks. However, there are 2 potential problems, loss of revenue from entrance fees and where do we park all if those cars that the people use to get to the bus? The revenue part is easy, tickets for the buses entering the park can replace the entrance fees. You can even have single ticket prices and group prices.  However, the parking issue only gets moved from inside the park to outside, and that isn&#8217;t necessarily a plus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amanda S		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-602007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2016 21:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-602007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Arches would be a great candidate for a shuttle service. There&#039;s one road down the backbone that accesses what 99% of visitors come to look at/hike. I can&#039;t imagine that overnight backcountry usage is that high there, and camping is pretty limited to select campsites. One of my favorite NPS experiences was in Denali and being able to just hop off the bus and hike. Agreed with other commenters that Yosemite would be another prime candidate for shuttle service. That place is also miserable, even during the week, during the summer months.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arches would be a great candidate for a shuttle service. There&#8217;s one road down the backbone that accesses what 99% of visitors come to look at/hike. I can&#8217;t imagine that overnight backcountry usage is that high there, and camping is pretty limited to select campsites. One of my favorite NPS experiences was in Denali and being able to just hop off the bus and hike. Agreed with other commenters that Yosemite would be another prime candidate for shuttle service. That place is also miserable, even during the week, during the summer months.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601739</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2016 00:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601739</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601719&quot;&gt;Nick Gatel&lt;/a&gt;.

You are, of course, right. I think about some Garrison Keiler once said: &quot;Majestic doesn’t appeal to us. We [Americans] like the Grand Canyon better with Clarence and Arlene parked in front of it, smiling. &quot;  In 2016 I would amend that to: &quot;....smiling. With selfie sticks. And then posting the selfie on Instagram. &quot;
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601719">Nick Gatel</a>.</p>
<p>You are, of course, right. I think about some Garrison Keiler once said: &#8220;Majestic doesn’t appeal to us. We [Americans] like the Grand Canyon better with Clarence and Arlene parked in front of it, smiling. &#8221;  In 2016 I would amend that to: &#8220;&#8230;.smiling. With selfie sticks. And then posting the selfie on Instagram. &#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick Gatel		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Gatel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2016 21:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Paul,

The NPS is just reacting to what the majority visitors want; and they want technology and ease of access. 

Of course I think the NPS, USFS, and BLM have lost sight of their original charters. 

Perhaps it is time for you (or me) to again write about the Waterman&#039;s Wilderness Ethics. We must be diligent and continually speak out for wilderness.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>The NPS is just reacting to what the majority visitors want; and they want technology and ease of access. </p>
<p>Of course I think the NPS, USFS, and BLM have lost sight of their original charters. </p>
<p>Perhaps it is time for you (or me) to again write about the Waterman&#8217;s Wilderness Ethics. We must be diligent and continually speak out for wilderness.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601711</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601711</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601677&quot;&gt;Devin Quince&lt;/a&gt;.

Metrics. All about metrics. :(]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601677">Devin Quince</a>.</p>
<p>Metrics. All about metrics. 🙁</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul Mags		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601710</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Mags]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601710</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601708&quot;&gt;Nick Gatel&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks Nick.

That is what really gets me. Backcountry rangers are becoming like Sasquatch settings. There is a huge trail maintenance backlog and campsites are being closed.

But there is money for roads, visitor centers and &lt;a href=&quot;https://fcw.com/articles/2016/01/28/national-park-wifi-spinosa.aspx&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WIFI ACCESS IN THE NATIONAL PARKS BY 2018 ?!?!?!?!&lt;/a&gt;

Egads.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601708">Nick Gatel</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks Nick.</p>
<p>That is what really gets me. Backcountry rangers are becoming like Sasquatch settings. There is a huge trail maintenance backlog and campsites are being closed.</p>
<p>But there is money for roads, visitor centers and <a href="https://fcw.com/articles/2016/01/28/national-park-wifi-spinosa.aspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">WIFI ACCESS IN THE NATIONAL PARKS BY 2018 ?!?!?!?!</a></p>
<p>Egads.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nick Gatel		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601708</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Gatel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601708</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, oh... you been reading Edward Abbey or that other curmudgeon lately?

Here&#039;s the problem: the key metric for the NPS is visitor count. I spend at least 80 nights a year in Joshua Tree NP, Lake Mead NRA, and the Mojave Preserve. JT and Lake Mead now charge $20 per vehicle and the visitor count for both is 2 million and 7 million respectively. That&#039;s a lot of do-re-me. 

Last year JT did a lot of new road work costing millions, but they don&#039;t have money to protect the backcountry (http://popupbackpacker.com/why-i-hate-trip-reports/).

They also have money to remodel visitor centers. Actually a few years ago the Lake Mead Alan Bibler Visitor Center remodel took longer to complete than it took to build Hoover Dam!

The NPS also administers the Mojave Preserve. There are no entrance booths or fees, but that will probably change since they just repaved all the roads... however most traffic is people shortcutting through the MP to get to and from Las Vegas, so I expect fees will be put in place soon. There are very few trails in these 3 units, so that is a good thing as cross country travel is fairly unrestricted.

Of course the solution is to blow up all roads leading to and going through any National Park, National Forest or designated Wilderness area. But that is a minority opinion.

Good news is that I have a lifetime pass to all NPS units that cost a one-time fee of $10. This is the only benefit to being old and mean. 

Good write-up, as usual.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, oh&#8230; you been reading Edward Abbey or that other curmudgeon lately?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the problem: the key metric for the NPS is visitor count. I spend at least 80 nights a year in Joshua Tree NP, Lake Mead NRA, and the Mojave Preserve. JT and Lake Mead now charge $20 per vehicle and the visitor count for both is 2 million and 7 million respectively. That&#8217;s a lot of do-re-me. </p>
<p>Last year JT did a lot of new road work costing millions, but they don&#8217;t have money to protect the backcountry (<a href="http://popupbackpacker.com/why-i-hate-trip-reports/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://popupbackpacker.com/why-i-hate-trip-reports/</a>).</p>
<p>They also have money to remodel visitor centers. Actually a few years ago the Lake Mead Alan Bibler Visitor Center remodel took longer to complete than it took to build Hoover Dam!</p>
<p>The NPS also administers the Mojave Preserve. There are no entrance booths or fees, but that will probably change since they just repaved all the roads&#8230; however most traffic is people shortcutting through the MP to get to and from Las Vegas, so I expect fees will be put in place soon. There are very few trails in these 3 units, so that is a good thing as cross country travel is fairly unrestricted.</p>
<p>Of course the solution is to blow up all roads leading to and going through any National Park, National Forest or designated Wilderness area. But that is a minority opinion.</p>
<p>Good news is that I have a lifetime pass to all NPS units that cost a one-time fee of $10. This is the only benefit to being old and mean. </p>
<p>Good write-up, as usual.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Devin Quince		</title>
		<link>https://pmags.com/backcountry-moratorium-in-arches-national-park#comment-601677</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Devin Quince]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://pmags.com/?p=12551#comment-601677</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is why I refuse to pay to use the RMNP backcountry, they are more concerned with getting big car loads of folks in and out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why I refuse to pay to use the RMNP backcountry, they are more concerned with getting big car loads of folks in and out.</p>
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